Adam Haggerty's Sultai control
 
Type: Deck Idea
Format (invalid) staStandard
Approx. Value:
$280.83

0 Likes 11 Comments
Avg. CMC 3.27
Card Color Breakdown
Card Type Breakdown

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Main Deck - 60 cards, 20 distinct
Columns
Name  Edition $ Type Cost
Rarity Color
Creature (3)
3 Doom Whisperer
$1.84 Creature - Nightmare Demon
Instant (17)
3 Assassin's Trophy
$2.51 Instant
3 Cast Down
$0.62 Instant
4 Chemister's Insight
$0.05 Instant
4 Sinister Sabotage
$0.07 Instant
3 Syncopate
$0.06 Instant
Sorcery (3)
3 Ritual of Soot
$0.21 Sorcery
Artifact (3)
3 Chromatic Lantern
$2.97 Artifact
Enchantment (4)
2 Search for Azcanta // Azcanta, the Sunken Ruin
$2.23 Legendary Enchantment // Legendary Land
2 The Eldest Reborn
$0.27 Enchantment - Saga
Planeswalker (4)
4 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
$8.98 Legendary Planeswalker - Teferi
Land (26)
4 Drowned Catacomb
$2.00 Land
2 Glacial Fortress
$0.82 Land
4 Hinterland Harbor
$0.86 Land
3 Island
$0.12 Basic Land - Island
3 Isolated Chapel
$1.53 Land
4 Overgrown Tomb
$11.65 Land - Swamp Forest
1 Swamp
$1.85 Basic Land - Swamp
1 Temple Garden
$11.58 Land - Forest Plains
4 Watery Grave
$12.97 Land - Island Swamp
Sideboard - 61 cards, 40 distinct
Name  Edition $ Type Cost
Rarity Color
Creature (21)
2 Blood Operative
$0.15 Creature - Vampire Assassin
2 Carnage Tyrant
$3.51 Creature - Dinosaur
1 Chromium, the Mutable
$0.69 Legendary Creature - Elder Dragon
1 Deadeye Tracker
$0.30 Creature - Human Pirate
1 Dream Eater
$0.29 Creature - Nightmare Sphinx
4 Gleaming Barrier
$0.07 Artifact Creature - Wall
1 Knight of Autumn
$0.42 Creature - Dryad Knight
1 Knight of Malice
$0.12 Creature - Human Knight
1 Muldrotha, the Gravetide
$5.16 Legendary Creature - Elemental Avatar
1 Pelakka Wurm
$0.14 Creature - Wurm
1 Pilfering Imp
$0.09 Creature - Imp
1 Thief of Sanity
$0.19 Creature - Specter
4 Thoughtbound Phantasm
$0.14 Creature - Spirit
Instant (6)
1 Disdainful Stroke
$0.09 Instant
1 Moment of Craving
$0.04 Instant
2 Negate
$0.12 Instant
2 Price of Fame
$0.15 Instant
Sorcery (7)
2 Discovery // Dispersal
$0.12 Sorcery // Instant //
1 Duress
$0.04 Sorcery
1 Golden Demise
$0.07 Sorcery
2 Thought Erasure
$0.17 Sorcery
1 Unmoored Ego
$0.23 Sorcery
Artifact (4)
1 Mox Amber
$39.20 Legendary Artifact
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
$0.19 Artifact
2 Thaumatic Compass // Spires of Orazca
$2.59 Artifact // Land
Enchantment (14)
2 Arguel's Blood Fast // Temple of Aclazotz
$0.26 Legendary Enchantment // Legendary Land
3 Dead Weight
$0.04 Enchantment - Aura
1 Demonic Vigor
$0.05 Enchantment - Aura
1 Disinformation Campaign
$0.08 Enchantment
4 Gift of Paradise
$0.03 Enchantment - Aura
2 Phyrexian Scriptures
$1.12 Enchantment - Saga
1 The Mirari Conjecture
$0.21 Enchantment - Saga
Planeswalker (1)
1 Vraska, Relic Seeker
$1.38 Legendary Planeswalker - Vraska
Land (8)
1 Detection Tower
$2.15 Land
1 Field of Ruin
$0.21 Land
1 Forest
$0.08 Basic Land - Forest
1 Memorial to Folly
$0.12 Land
1 Sunpetal Grove
$2.32 Land
1 Temple Garden
$11.58 Land - Forest Plains
2 Woodland Cemetery
$0.98 Land

Notes
 
This deck is born out of the idea that Sultai control is viable based out of the removal. If we think about a main black, splash green, splash blue manabase, then look at the removsl options we have on 2.

Cast Down, Assasin's Trophy, Price of Fame, Syncopate, Negate.

This covers everything with two mana up. Additionally, we can play sinister sabotage (as covered in jeskai UU isn't extremely difficult) and Chemister's trick, which is better than notion rain as we go bigger and play at instant speed. We know the manabase is good, and this allows us to get away from Vraska's contempt, which I feel is just not what we want to be doing at four mana. Yes it is very good, but cheaper and more efficient is where it's at. This deck can also play Discovery/ Dispersal, Status/Statue, Arguel's Blood Fast, Thought Erasure, and Search for Azcanta. It will also be neccessary to run some kind of sweeper, which ritual of soot, golden demise, and Phyrexian scriptures all do well. Eldest Reborn also seems like an optimal choice, and then naturally doom whisperer feels like the best threat alongside a Vraska. Being a somewhat surveil heavy deck allows us to use blood operative, which seems decent in a control shell. Thief of Sanity is to fun. Muldrotha is a huge payoff to Sultai, and is a better loop than find broker. Muldrotha also incentives us to play dead weight, which is allready pretty good. Looping any saga but especially phyrexian scriptures is very good, might be better than the eldest reborn. Ramping with gift of paradise or chromatic lantern seems very good. Jadelight ranager is a consideration, as is demonic vigor.

Something that's possible as I discussed before is the addition of a fourth lite splash. If we splash white, we could play Teferi with the ability to recurr it and instant speed tricks. T4 Teferi with 3 mana up of most colors is what gifts of paradise let's us do.

We could also play Arcades. There are interesting defenders in thoughtbound phantasm, barrier of bones, and gleaming barrier in particular that seem well suited to the deck already, and arcades turns all those cards up a notch. Playing status alongside those cards to is also particularly powerful.

This is where I see the format heading at the pro tour. This is the deck I want to land on by time we get to the Grand Prix in November. If I get it tuned right, it will be an absolute shut out.

It's a bit over the top, but moldrotha and a transformed argils bloodfast do some sillly things. Like instant speed dream eater out of the graveyard to bounce, surveil,swing 4, sac to gain 3 life, do it again? Or same loop but with Pelakka arm to swing 7, gain 10, and draw a card every turn? GG!

I figured the mana base out for the above. Needs a little testing to hone in on the exact numbers. Because the deck is almost entirely blue black, these were the requirements of our mana:
1.) Have untapped mana on T2, T3, T4.
2.) Have U/B/G available by Turn 3.
3.) Have UU Available on T3.
4.) Have BB on T4.
5.) Have W available by turn 5.

With these requirements, I decided that every land should either tap for U or B. This way we cast our single spell removal sweet on time, and we can double into T3 and T4 of either color. Shock Check manabase makes it so all our lands don't come into play tapped as long as we have 10 sources that check each land. We have a total 13, with lowest being 6 for glacial fortress. Some adjustment needed there. We have 9 sources of green, should have by T3 easily. We have six sources of white, which is about 1 out of 10, but should be easier than that with card selection and the ramp. Will ned to check for reliability. Might be beneficial to split between notion rain and chemister's trick. One forest is a nod to consistency and field of ruin/assasin's trophy. May not be necessary. Memorial to folly is an important redundancy piece with Muldrotha.

The next stage is to take the engine of the deck and the manabase and sleeve it up with space holders for the removal suite. to see if the engine works reliably with the mana base. Final step will to be hone on the removal suite and final numbers.

Trying to strip away the removal options does not create as much space as I expected. The engine is too big for this deck. I pulled out the Muldrotha package (Which a clear appeal for the deck) to be added back in and still at 50 + cards. I guess we first need to really hone in on what our engine is first. There is the Teferi/Search/Assasin's trophy/Doom Whisperer package. This is the truth, and a deck that cast's them all reliably will be a winning list. Supplementing that is Arguel's Blood fast and Chemister's trick for card draw, and the super awesome sinister sabotage. These number's will need adjustment. Then there is the Ramp suite, which I'm not is essential or not. It makes everything awesome mana wise, and getting ahead on mana is very good for our control deck. It's 6 cards, bad top decks, and curving into Doom or Teferi on 4 is both really good and kinda not what you want to be doing as tapping out on 3 and 4 is not awesome for a control deck. Muldrotha loops seem like an awesome parallel plan with saga's and recurring our threats. Pleakka wurm is a great catch up/win con/recur option, and I really like the interaction with doom whisperer and Arguel's bloodfast. Carnage tyrant is a one card engine, and pretty sweet of it's own accord. I guess without white sweepers I need to hone in how I'm locking up the battlefield. No matter what I need to be playing 16+ instant speed interaction spells, no matter what engine I'm using, and not be stumbling on mana. Going to do some research on the Bant Nexus list from last season and the old Jeskai Black for crafting inspirations.

Just took a quick look at Todd Anderson's Jeskai Black list. The mana is vastly different, fetch "shock" manabases are intuitively easier. I think I need to build pretty deeply with surveil to compensate to make my mana as easy, or a fixing mechanism. If the mana is right, 26 land, 12 permanents, 22 Instant speed effects. 4-7 ish card advantage.

I'm getting pretty despondent about the four color task, but the hope of casting the ultimate control package is still too appealing to throw in the towel on it. I tried an approach of picking my removal suite, then filling in around it. I have no idea if the above configuration is playable, but it's a start. I really need to assess if this sweeper package is enough. The catch up mechanisms are lacking, which means that I need to be able to keep pace or stay above water, which is a tall order. I'll try it out and see how it goes.
Comments
  • Christopher | 09-Oct-2018 19:39
    So based on my playtesting with some 3 or 4 color decks on mtga, its a lot harder to stay on curve than it "looks".  Now I have not tried green just yet, I am basing it on draw spells (opt anticipate radical idea risk factor) and a few surveil triggers.  It's not impossible by any means, but it sucks when it doesn't work.  I conceded by basically runing little to no double costs in my removal.  I pulled Vraska's, Settle, and Nova.  I see that you have none of these in your list, but I'm just adding my two cents.

    Also I am starting to generally feel like unless you NEED it, thought erasure is a really hard sell for me while playtesting, just doesn't seem to work the way I want it to or have the timing I want it to, maybe I am just unlucky. 

    Lastly, I don't truly understand Muldrotha in here, other than to get teferi back? Seems like a really expensive 6 drop, but maybe I am missing something. Personally, I think this combination of cards looks cool, but won't function super synergistically just yet, its missing a unifying piece imo.
    • Adam Haggerty | 09-Oct-2018 20:41
      Your right about the mana. I can't really play doubles very well and there will be quite a few curves that just are workable, even if almost all the cards are U/B. Chromatic Lantern and Gift of Paradise mitigate this, but they up taking to much space in the 75 I think and you both don't and do want to tap out for them on T3. This is the combonation of cards, it just is to unreliable to cast currently. Thought erasure is not good now, but I'm anticipating the metagame shifting to a more midrange place by november, when a deck like this would be good and thought erasure will be more effective. Muldrotha turns lands in the graveyard to land drops (Including memorial to folly), recurring the creatures and planeswalker, but best recurring saga's. If you have two of the same saga and muldrotha, you can play them succesively in such way where all three modes fire every turn, which is Bae. Muldrotha is just the 7th lategame piece, and could be Carnage Tyrant for a simlar game ending effect. I'm going to leave it be for a little while, I see that it's just not gonna happen currently. Teferi is still the best card in standard imo. I will probably refine Jeskai more now.
      • Christopher | 09-Oct-2018 20:44
        120% agree with the Teferi statement.... I wish I had a 3rd... what a game breaking card. I love it.
        • Adam Haggerty | 09-Oct-2018 22:01
          I think Fredo has 2-3 so between us we can run two Teferi decks. It's just insanely powerful. Finding the deck that can play him and as many of the other most OP cards in standard is where I want to be. Or completely off the chart with something like Arcades:)
  • Alfredo Caban | 03-Oct-2018 19:41
    I agree with Chris there are two decks in this list. Knowing you I wouldn't go the Arcades, the Strategist route. Its why you have trouble with the sen triplets edh deck. Yes, you get more draw but you hate fair sorcery speed control. That's what all the enchantment is in my mind and you have options to better things. I also don't like going 4 colors as you will have to decide every game are you going to go for the 4th color or go for the win. I have to do this even in two color decks that play cryptic command and kiki for that reason I would cut white and even the Pelakka Wurm and Dream Eater. Doom Whisperer is a killer and Muldrotha, the Gravetide is something they will wish they had us their removal spells on. If you still want a bigger body I would go with Nezahal, Primal Tide. The deck is also screaming for one drop of some kind even if they are little asses like Barrier of Bones or bad remove it's up to you just my thought on the early specs also no nexus. you need Teferi, Hero of Dominaria to pull you out to make it playable.  
    • Alfredo Caban | 03-Oct-2018 20:03
      Adam take a look at my Esper build I think that is what you want to do but you will need to tweak it's only a rough shell plus add green to play AT lol
      • Adam Haggerty | Edited 03-Oct-2018 20:48
        I took a look. I want to be base black in my 4 color control deck, double white for settle is just so hard on the manabase. I think for color decks are viable, but that you likely can have double the base color, maybe a strong secondary, but everything else has to 1, and the deck likely does better if everything is more spread.


        Untile next set, Jeskai and Abzan are probably the best lists that can afford double white cards.
    • Adam Haggerty | 03-Oct-2018 20:16
      That's great advice. The arcades might be explosive, but it will play much differently than control, so i'd try to make the list in effort to broaden my horizons, but not my first pick. Your right on the cards to cut, picking out all the high curve and the fourth color. I will make a list that is stright sultai control that's very lean to demonstrate this. Thoughtbound phantasm would be the 1 drop of choice, as it's pretty good on it's own and trading early acts as an efficient removal spell. Nexus has other applications that just being good with teferi, but your right it probably get's cut. Imagine a game where I have doom whisperer in play and cast nexus of fate. I get another turn to swing, and potential can surveil into another nexus. 

      I will push back a little bit on the 4 color thing. Eventually, this is what will happen, as it always happens in multicolor formats. As I noted below as well, the deck is actually mostly U/B, with some green and some white cards, and gifts of paradise and surveil is no joke. Think about my Jeskai list the other night which almost completley U/W, did I ever stumble on mana? I will build a four color list to demonstrate this, and will test to see if it's true.


      This is how I assess the manabases of Guilds of Ravnica:


      Mono color is easy with a light splash if in a shockland color.


      Strong dual color manabases are BAD as you need the right double mana at the right time, and there are not enough dual lands to make that happen. If having a land enter the battlefield tapped is bad for 3+ color decks, it's really bad in decks that are supposed to aggresively curve out. You can tell becuase those decks feel like there just getting out played, even when they are playing out mostly as intended. Guildgates are strictly bad, will always enter tapped, lead to bad things for your deck. If you are playing a deck that "needs" guildgates outside of having district guide in your deck, your card selection is probably wrong.


      3 color manabases with two shocklands are the BEST mana. The combonation of 8 shocklands, basics, and check lands should mean that you will never have a tapped land when you don't want it if you got your ratio's right. Additionally, You are able to have double of the main color easy, and spalsh for each of the other colors easy. You can skew your mana to be able to double in two colors and splash the third. You can make it that all your lands tap for one of two colors or both, and then the third color is just free.


      The same can be said of 4 color decks, and statistically should be no different than the three color manabase if you follow the guideline above, and these additional rules. The fourth splash is very, very light, there are very few double of one color spells, you play some sort of fixing, and you play some sort of selection (like surveil). And don't forget, surveil and Jump-start give you options with any potential "uncastable" cards.


      What's your thoughts on this?
  • Christopher | 03-Oct-2018 18:29
    So I feel like you are getting at two completely different sultai control shells.
    I do agree with this being where the meta is headed, but I don't think you can effectively do both (not sure if you were trying to or not).
    I also know I am also falling into the trap of trying to reach for that 4th color splash purely because of how pervasive fetch and fixing is. I haven't played with it enough to decide if its worth it or not though.
     That being said, I will divide my future thoughts into two sections based on this.  One that is purely traditional control+bomb staying in sultai and one that is control+defenders eaching for 4 colors with Arcades
    • Adam Haggerty | 03-Oct-2018 18:44
      I think your right. i mostly was exploring this cluster so that's why it's all together, but there is definitely a control list here and a Arcades list here. The Arcades list will act like control until arcades is dropped, then it will immediately turn the corner. Arguel's Bloodfast is going to beinsane in this deck, and it will be sultai in color.


      Then there's the sultai control list that I really was trying to tease out, what you label the pure control. The splash is already pretty easy, and gifts of paradise is just actually insane as I mentioned with Teferi. It basically gets all of the best control cards except settle/cleansing Nova. Having acess to the recurrsive loops is what puts it into another level I think though, and Muldrotha will just be oppressive in this shell. Doom Whisperer alongside Teferi is going to be the nuts, leaving up a counterspell and assasin's trophy with a card draw spell in your graveyard. 
      • Adam Haggerty | 03-Oct-2018 18:48
        Also look at the mana costs. The entire deck is almost U/B, with a splash of Green and White. I bet the mana will be good, just takes a little careful crafting, and gifts of paradise will smooth all mana issues.
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